Puffer

I was sorry to see Richie's actions in the thread at Hey from New York! and must post my comments here as Richie has also locked that thread - game, set and match to him.

Yes, Carmelo (33peachlane) has broken the rules by (gasp!) daring to mention his business activities in the guise of an introduction to himself. And (shock, horror!) he suspected that he might be doing so and apologised in advance, requesting moderator intervention if necessary. And also, to cap it all, he pressed the wrong button and turned himself into a female, but again asked for help, requesting a moderator-induced sex-change to restore his credentials.

Well, Carmelo got his moderator intervention all right - Richie has summarily banned him because he got it wrong in what was otherwise an inoffensive posting - a first posting by a newcomer who surely deserves a modicum of tolerance as well as respect. And Richie also wants us to boycott Carmelo's business, whatever it may be.

Sorry, Richie, but although I respect your role, I think you have been both harsh and unfair. And (with respect to you personally) as I yet have to see any posting from you (including this last one) which is entirely free of presentational error, no matter how trivial, you might allow others a little leeway on that score alone.

Now, am I to be banned for daring to challenge the referee?

Tech

Oh boy, I wish we didnt have to go over this again and again, or that we didnt have to keep on explaining the many things that a lot of your guys probably dont even see.

Several weeks ago we had problems with many new members who were actually retailers with there own websites...

While there's nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure we all welcome more places to buy from, these members have been advised before even making there first post, by PM, to kindly not start with the adverts and spam the minute they set foot in the door...

This polite request went ignored, and as such, the members persisted and had there post's edited or deleted with the promise of a ban, but it didnt get better because it quickly became a "Well if that can advertise why cant I" from new members talking about long established members like Gina.

This all went on behind the scenes so to speak as we were quick enough to remove some of the spammed posts, and the members eventually listened, but only after an enormous amount of hassle.

Anyway, it happened again, and again, so.... We needed to set a precident, a benchmark, maybe a reminder if you like.

We have rules, which it seems nobody reads, so how about a more public approach somewhere that people actually do read?

When I moderated this members signup, I did ask not to come here just for the sake of spam/advertising or posting links, yet this went ignored yet again...

Whats the point in asking andbody anything if they ignore you anyway.
When somebody has an agenda, they will do what they need to to carry it out right?

We have a retailer section where retailers are free to post as many updates about themselves as they please without any worries of spamming anybody, but they dont want to listen.

Puffer, why the heck would you think I would ban you?

Did you do something REALLY REALLY bad that nobody knows about? Nope, didnt think so. Everybody here is free to ask whatever they like of us, and, given enough time, we will always try to reply to it, but like I keeeep on saying over and over again...

Dont make assumptions when you dont have all the facts.
FYI.. I closed that thread to prevent an argument breaking out..

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Heels 4 Men - Guys in heels, as guys!

jmc

Puffer, do you want HHplace to become nothing more than an online shopping site for shoes? It is our experience that a member who drops a link to an online store in his first post is nothing more than a spammer.

You have been here a while. Do you remember the spam wave? Do you want to go back to those days when spammers nearly shut HHplace down?

We have a place for shoe-shop links and it is not the "Hellos . . ." forum. This type of activity indicates a user that has not bothered to read the guidelines or become familiar with the site and how it works. Again, somebody who joined just to drop a link.

We are trying to promote HHplace as a community, where like-minded people come together to discuss their footwear choices.

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Have a happy time!

Puffer

Thank you for the explanation, Richie. I made no assumptions and could only respond on the basis of what I read in that terse exchange with Carmelo. As you say yourself, there are 'many things that a lot of your guys probably dont even see', so I don't think I could have been aware of your specific warnings to newbies about spamming which (it seems) Carmelo ignored rather more blatantly than the exchange suggested. Fair enough - but if you had explained that there a little more clearly for everyone's benefit, I would not have raised the issue.

This procedural action may be cited in future as an application of the rule in Richie v. Carmelo!

No, jmc, I certainly don't want spamming or similar activity and I agree that any advertising does indeed belong elsewhere than in the 'hellos'. But when I see a newcomer summarily banned there for what seemed merely to be a mistake on his part, I am concerned. I now see that the concern was misplaced but I'm sure you can see why I in turn was misled.

Let's leave it there, and hope that everyone now has a better understanding of what happened and why.

Arctic

People, this is not a democracy. The owner of the board sets the rules and implements them as he sees fit.

We are always free to pack up and leave - and set up a competing service.

And I for one do not want to be hit here with obscene stuff or other spam. It only illustrates that some people cannot resist mixing the concept of heels (or forward fashion if you wish) with things like sex disorders or cheap commerce.

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What's all the fuss about?

Tech

Look at it more as "hhplace vs spam"

This wasnt a mistake, he even said
"Sorry if this seems like it's an advertisement, I've read the rules and know where things of that nature belong."

Thanks, its very much appreciated.

Actually, this is a democracy, and "the team" implement the rules according to what pisses off members, what members complain about and what cause's members to leave or stay.

Like JMC said, years ago this place was riddled with spam, porn and other unpleasant material, and the only members left were either spambots, or members who had stopped posting long ago, many of which have actually returned and now happily use the website.

I always think of it like a door-to-door saleman turning up at your house while you have friends round. If the first thing the new guy wants to do is push his warez on you, its clear he has no interest in you, just your wallet.

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Heels 4 Men - Guys in heels, as guys!

fastfreddy2

*** Oops, posts crossed over. I was typing when Richie posted ***



I think that's not much of an apology? Not so much for the why, but the form of the delivery.

I happen to know Richie has spent at least three hours of his (own) time today, responding to a couple of difficult issues here - often by PM - with thanks from no-one. In fact, more likely criticism.

While your concern was well meant, it was mis-directed, as you now know. Surely an apology is order from your good self, since you did make a mistake and weren't very nice about it at the time?

Sadly, Richie gets caught between a rock and a hard place waaay too often. I've only been here a couple of months and I can see already, he's got his work cut out for him. A bit of support wouldn't go amiss.

....

Tech

Freddie

Thank you. I appreciate your taking the time to post that.

The bummer of all this is that we have to spend so much time justifying what we do, we cant get anything done.

The 3+ hours i've personally spent here today justifying and answering stuff has meant the 30+ new members awaiting moderation have to now sit there and wait yet another day before they can be registered members.

Sadly there is a rather sinister reason why we now have to moderate new signups, but I would prefer to hope members might have a little more faith than to constantly question every single move we make, and realise that we do what we do for the benefit of everybody here.

The odd thing is, we (The team) often get more of a lashback from the members here when trying to do the right thing for them than we do from the people being banned/warned/told off etc

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Heels 4 Men - Guys in heels, as guys!

yozz

Well Ritchie, there are still lots of members who appreciate very much what you are
doing. The problem is that if every member who is grateful would say so every day
that would have the same effect as a spam attack.
But the website team really keeps this site very clean and very nice.

Sometimes you clean up before people can see what the offending messages were,
and we wonder what happened. (I still don't know what ended the religious wars and
the bans that followed). But over time it has become very clear that your judgement is
rather good. That is why so many people enjoy this place.



Y.

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Raise your voice. Put on some heels.

Puffer

I'm reluctant to say more but I cannot overlook what Freddie is now saying. Yes, I have been shown to be wrong in suggesting that Richie should not have summarily banned Carmelo. But because his reasons were not transparent at that time and seemed to me unfair, I queried them. Power does carry responsibility and accountability.

Richie has spent valuable time explaining; I appreciate that and his input generally. But don't forget that I too spent time raising my query (complaint, if you wish) in good faith in what I believed to be, and still believe to be, the interests of this board and group generally. I am not an anarchist nor everyone's indignant champion, but when I see an apparently harsh and inexplicable act which affects this board, I feel entitled to seek an explanation - which I got and accept; we are all now wiser. But both query and explanation would have been avoided if the reasons for the action had been better reflected in the original exchange between Richie and Carmelo.

So, I do not apologise for raising the issue but I do apologise for wasting Richie's time. And, if I appeared forthright in my approach, then I apologise for that too - but then Richie scarcely minced his words when he put Carmelo in his place, did he?

Richie's analogy of the uninvited salesman is a good one and I certainly don't want to see this board clogged by misplaced (if not always unwanted) sales pitches. The essential difference is that it is easier to ignore (or remove) unwanted text than an unwanted foot in the door (however elegantly shod!) but the former action tends to leave evidence that is and remains more public than an imprint of one's stiletto on the salesman's instep!